In light of the intemperate exchanges between Bob Piper and me on my post comparing Labour & Tory scandals I should add a few words on how the Derek Conway story impacts that discussion. One of the issues Bob & I locked horns on was whether or not we should only discuss convictions or cases where the parliamentary authorities have passed judgement against someone. I felt, and still do, that that’s too restrictive when you have allegations that go to the very top (as they did over ‘cash for honours’) since it’s not unreasonable to assume that the law or authorities might not get their man in such cases – these are powerful forces they’re up against.
Nonetheless Bob does have a point in stressing how few ‘Labour scandals’ have resulted in the kind of parliamentary censure we’ve seen in the Conway case. As I explained in my post I think most of the Tory outrage at Labour’s behaviour in office is justified but if it’s to be accepted as something more than partisan stone-throwing then the Conservatives need to be equally if not more combative when it comes to dealing with similar issues in their own party. Putting up spokesman to have a pop at Alan Johnson or Peter Hain when the jury’s still out is perhaps understandable in modern politics but when one of your own lot has actually been found guilty of breaking the rules then you’d better make damn sure your reaction is equally high profile and judgemental. I haven’t seen that.
While on the subject I see there’s also some debate around how Iain Dale’s reacted to the Conway story. In essence Iain takes the view that since he’s a friend of Conway’s he’ll say anything he has to say to him to his face and there’s no reason why he should engage on the story on the blog. At various times in the past Iain’s also staunchly defended the fact that his is a partisan blog and makes no apologies for moderating his reaction depending on the story. For reasons that will become apparent shortly I have good blogging relationship with Iain but on this I think he’s getting it wrong. I don’t doubt the sincerity of his friendship with Conway but in these situations context is all and Peter Hain, Alan Johnson etc. all have friends too. Iain and others (myself included) have been happy to have a pop at Labour figures, even before they’ve been found guilty so neglecting to say anything about arguably more important stories because ‘they’re a mate’ wont wash for me. It’s not beyond the gift of a writer of Iain’s calibre to find a way to comment on the Conway story and share his opinions while still protecting his friendship with Derek.
The importance of blogging to the political process is growing by the day, not least because of sites like Iain’s – moderating output like this dents that progress and risks reducing it to little more than overblown social networking.
Nonetheless Bob does have a point in stressing how few ‘Labour scandals’ have resulted in the kind of parliamentary censure we’ve seen in the Conway case. As I explained in my post I think most of the Tory outrage at Labour’s behaviour in office is justified but if it’s to be accepted as something more than partisan stone-throwing then the Conservatives need to be equally if not more combative when it comes to dealing with similar issues in their own party. Putting up spokesman to have a pop at Alan Johnson or Peter Hain when the jury’s still out is perhaps understandable in modern politics but when one of your own lot has actually been found guilty of breaking the rules then you’d better make damn sure your reaction is equally high profile and judgemental. I haven’t seen that.
While on the subject I see there’s also some debate around how Iain Dale’s reacted to the Conway story. In essence Iain takes the view that since he’s a friend of Conway’s he’ll say anything he has to say to him to his face and there’s no reason why he should engage on the story on the blog. At various times in the past Iain’s also staunchly defended the fact that his is a partisan blog and makes no apologies for moderating his reaction depending on the story. For reasons that will become apparent shortly I have good blogging relationship with Iain but on this I think he’s getting it wrong. I don’t doubt the sincerity of his friendship with Conway but in these situations context is all and Peter Hain, Alan Johnson etc. all have friends too. Iain and others (myself included) have been happy to have a pop at Labour figures, even before they’ve been found guilty so neglecting to say anything about arguably more important stories because ‘they’re a mate’ wont wash for me. It’s not beyond the gift of a writer of Iain’s calibre to find a way to comment on the Conway story and share his opinions while still protecting his friendship with Derek.
The importance of blogging to the political process is growing by the day, not least because of sites like Iain’s – moderating output like this dents that progress and risks reducing it to little more than overblown social networking.
Labels: Politics
12 Comments:
yes well Cameron withdrew the whip quickly enough. Its just one of those things
Not altogether right, newmania. Cameron has acted... but only after being pushed into it. His initial response was to say they would not withdraw the whip. It will be food and drink to those of us who accuse him of flip-flopping, although I think he has got it partially right now.
If only we has thought to say... 'oh well, it's just one of those things' over Hain... everything would have been OK.
The difference is that Hain is only the next ina queue of folk having an attitude to funding that appears to be dishonest in the Labour Party. Its cash for honours that is the real problem. The sensitivity over Hain et al is no-ones fault but the dishonest Labour Party and it was staggeringly stupid of him . Similarly Mercer is not a racist and nor is Boris as you well know but you use it ...its a Political truth because it is believed and has currency to some extent . Hain was always far too stupid to be a crook.We know that , just as you know quite well that Boris Johnson is not a racist
Your suggestion that Cameron was pushed is unsupported invention. He decided and any quicker would have looked peculiar with a long standing and well liked MP. Such things will never be handled to the satisfaction of our enemies but its such trivia
Bob Piper: Your mark is disingenuous. Disciplinary procedures necessarily take time to be fair to all parties, allow time for consultation and reflection. Taking a decision in 24 hours is acting decisively. Brow, by way of contrast, has shown all the decision making skills of Pontius Pilate.
David Cameron's Office on Monday:
“Derek Conway has apologised fully on the floor of the House of Commons and the Whip has not been withdrawn. The appropriate punishment is being administered”
David Cameron's Office on Tuesday:
“The usual procedure in these cases is to leave the punishment to the House of Commons authorities, however, having asked the Chief Whip to speak again to Mr Conway and having personally reflected overnight I have decided to withdraw the Conservative Whip from Mr Conway.”
Well, all the details of Conway's offences were known on Monday. There was no new or different evidence on Tuesday. It was just another case of Elton Cameron blowing like a candle in the wind. Blair used to do all of this rot, following every media story with a new direction and a new press release, and just look at the trouble he got in to.At least Gordon takes some time to think about these things before showing his indecisiveness.
At least Gordon takes some time to think about these things before showing his indecisiveness.
There we go even Piper has a sense of humour hidden beneath his Freddie Krugerish exterior
And at least some Tories have a sense of honour... the code of silence around Conway has finally been broken. Why, even dizzy thinks he's done something wrong, and when someone that far up the Tory leadership's arse speaks out, you know why Cameron flipped.
Hain has friends. They have defended him publicly. Conway has friends, they have kept their counsel in public. Iain commented on Hain, but he is not Hain's friend.
While it is not how everyone would behave, and other responses would be perfectly reasonable, I think Iain has a good balance. Certainly far better than many others.
Mr Piper
there was active defence of the (many) Labour MPs who have recently broken the law. You can hardly complain about public silence on an issue relating to a friend.
P.S. Hain still has the party whip. Harman still has the party whip. Johnson still has the party whip. Wendy Alexander is still the leader ofthe party in Scotland!
All broke the law. I don't hear you calling for those whips to be withdrawn, Mr Piper. That is the greatest sanction the party has, and the Conservatives used it. The Labour party didn't.
As I'm sure Bob'll point out Richard every name you mention there retains the whip because they've yet to be found formally guilty of any wrongdoing or censured by any parliamentary body - unlike Conway.
If you read the thread on my previous post you'll see Bob & I did battle over this and my suspicion is that some of them at least are guilty (and not just of negligence). Still, if removing the whip is the ultimate censure then Brown certainly shouldn't do that until the people have been proven to have broken the law.
Sniping but us right-wing bloggers isn't enough....
True, but point out to our friend Bob that some of them have admitted to their illegal behaviour. Wendy Alexander certainly did, and I reckon Hain did too.
Bob proved he was right on this one. And I agree with Cassie that Iain Dale lost a tad of credibility with his 'He's a mate' defence of Conway. No doubt that the offence was more reprehensible than Hain's either.
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home